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| Sumomo |
yeah! it sucks!!!! it's the only
thing to blame that we cancel so many raids every week! oh, that and
the fact we have waaaaay to many rules.
ok, here you have the chance now...
let all your preocupations go. we have discussed this like
983745893745 times allready but who the fuck cares, let's do it ONCE
MORE.
cmon, it's your chance. YOU! yes YOU that you know so exactly WHAT
OUR PROBLEM IS: how about finding a solution, huh? if you know our
problem SO WELL, finding an solution will be PISS EASY for you, huh?
i'll tell you WHAT our problem is, and i said it in that chatlog
allready: PEOPLE CANT GET ARSED.
and here is the perfect example of what i am talking about. hint:
look what jill (corrina alt) sais.
forgot to add:
my final conclusion is: untilll our OH SO SMART officers find a
SOLUTION to our problem, don't count on me for ANYTHING. i won't
raid i wont update the RP (as it's useless anyways) or anything the
like.
until this post comes to a final decision and gets closed, sumomo
doesn't exist.
i am THIS far '' from cancelling my wow accounts and this guild is
the only thing that holds me back. i have put 75% of my wow career
and countless real life hours into this guild and i am not willing
to take anymore bullshit if it's not backep up with 101% proof and
facts. |
|
|
| Micca |
A little suggestion (maybe); how
about if we do less raids then we are doing now (supposed to)?
If people want to enjoy summer which I fully understand, why not just skip
the raiding some day or two so people can go out instead? And hopefully we
will get a full raid when we raid.
And tbh, this RP is something very good and makes it a lot easier and
quicker to organize raids, I am not saying it is perfect but it is an
improvent. |
| Shammrock |
"sumomo turns into a little
baby" /cry more ffs , grow up u noob ! |
| Kaapio |
I had a long post written about
this, but what Shammrock says pretty much sums it up.
| Shammrock wrote: |
| "sumomo turns into a little baby" /cry
more ffs, grow up u noob ! |
Is it just me, or does this scream quote of the week potential! |
| Darkhalo |
| Kaapio wrote: |
I had a long post written about this, but what
Shammrock says pretty much sums it up.
| Shammrock wrote: |
| "sumomo turns into a little
baby" /cry more ffs, grow up u noob ! |
Is it just me, or does this scream quote of the week potential! |
Preach it brothers! |
| Sumomo |
aha. i see... so, now this comes
into public and there is no more to "discuss"? where are all
your brilliant ideas? no? nothing left? ah well, we can allways make fun
off sumomo instead, huh?
well, i guess one step more into account cancelation then. maybe that's
all you really want, me to get the fuck out of the guild already. well
this is your chance: instead of "conspiring in the dark" you've
got the chance to finally say what the fuck you really want.
PS: weird what some1 can see when he just logged in, how it turns as soon
as people realize you're reading them and where it ends when you ask them
to continue it on the forums. |
| Kaapio |
Ah for god sakes, stop making a
martyr out of your self.
For once we are out speaking our minds, instead of being barked at by you.
To be honest you can wipe you arse with your account for all that I care,
I don't think highly enough of you to actually work for making you cancell
your account. But then again, you've always given your self abit too much
credit.
| Sumo wrote: |
| PS: weird what some1 can see when he just logged
in, how it turns as soon as people realize you're reading them and
where it ends when you ask them to continue it on the forums. |
Meaning who or what?
Either we were praising you like hell earlier or this doesn't really make
sence huh? |
| Shammrock |
I dont care what you do , but
please remember there is many other people in this guild who think the
same as us , how do i know you may ask ? well ive spoken to a few people
(not only today but in the past weeks) , ofc i wont name names , and maybe
they dont have the balls to say anything or maybe they dont want to waste
there breath on you , but go ahead and do what you want like you allways
do . |
| Kaapio |
| Sumomo on the raid planner wrote: |
| OMG!!! THE RP IS THE GUILTY ONE THAT NO ONE SIGNS
AND WE CANCEL SO MUCH!!! OMG OMG!!! i wont do a SINGLE raid
anymore till our SMART officers find a SOLUTION |
I actually find it amusing, since your suggestion to this was simply to 'wait
till fall, then all our problems will vanish to thin air'.
Even beating an old lady with a stray cat would have been a better
solution.
It's pretty obivous that you don't count the praetorians to do much other
than be puppets on strings, and I for am tired of being the mindless
sidekick in the 'Sumomo Show'.
You speak about leaving the guild, and in all fairness the guild is better
off with you in it when looking at what it is today. Before making
anything out of this, would be nice to hear from our silent partners, or
wolves in sheeps clothing depeneding what their opinions might be now that
it's out in the open. |
| Sardukar |
Ok, something a little
constructive (wrong or not)
Raidplanner: A neccisary evil that sometimes operates like a complete
mystery to most. Ok, it ties into some of the other stuff we use like dkp
(I think) and is a lower admin than the old method. One thing I would
change about it is not following it like its some sort of holy scripture,
for example if your not on the RP, you cant come to the raid, even if
there is space and that person is needed. To me that seems a little
counter prodictive, we cancel or struggle through a raid for the sake of
some text not being on the RP. Instead of gimping ourselves in this way,
maybe we should say Signups have prority, followed by sign offs, then last
priorty is those who havnt singned at all.
When we are short of, for example, a preist on a raid, we have one on line,
but, he is willing to come, but hasnt used the RP and we turn him away,
how are we helping the guilds progress. Sure, this person is "punished"
for his admin error, but so are the 30+ people in the raid. Perhaps we
need to step back and start looking at things like a group of PLAYERS who
are in the GAME to HAVE FUN, rather than looking at the RP like traffic
wardens looking to issue a ticket.
Now, slightly off the main topic, but to do with the arguments on this
thread:
One issue seems to be most officers seem to feel la bit neutered and
purposless. Oddly enough at the same time we have sumomo who seems to be a
little over worked by all the crap that has to be done. Surley the
origional purpose off the officers is to delegate tasks. Bingo! we have a
solution. Sumomo isnt over worked and the officers acutally get to
officer.
The way I understood the officer positions was to deal with the people
directly under them, while the officer themselves are responsible to Rall
and Sumomo. But at the moment it seems Rall and sumomo are dealing with
the micromanagment of handing out dkp fines, attendance issues and other
tasks that should really be left to thier officers. Solder X is being
sloppy? its Pretoian/tribune Y's job to slap them back into order. Soldier
X is still dicking around, then its P/T Y's balls on the block as it
should have been thier job to deal with it in the first place.
Raids:
Raid leading is a stressful task (ive not done it yet, but it scares the
shit outa me), but sumomo leads 95% of all raids. We have other members
who make excelent raid leaders, Berthold (when hes here ofc), Kugai,
Blixten and others are upto the task. Take a back seat occasionaly and
just play without having to worry about any other tasks than a warlocks
duties. TBH mate, you can tell your not in the mood for it some days and
it affects the mood of the raid, which in turn affects the success of it.
Sure screaming at people gets thier attention, but having fun also keeps
people focused too, boredom is the killer where people lose attention and
get sloppy. Sometimes getting chewed out for 3 hours on end gets boring
too.
When sumomo goes into "silent rage" mode, its counter productive,
orders are not clear, mistakes that could easly be rectified by 2 words on
VT are made and wipes happen. Then the raid/officer gets chewed out for
not reading raid/officer/guild/whisper/party chat at the same time as
doing thier other tasks. Lets face it, everyones raid interface has 101
things on it already without having to keep an eye on every chat channel
going at once. VT is a tool used for quick orders that dont need to be
typed or dont have time to be typed. If the raid wipes due to something
being typed by the RL because hes too mad to talk on VT, its not the
readers fault, its the RLs fault for not asking somebody to take over when
theyre clearly too mad/tired to do the job properly.
Im not talking about kicking yourself from a raid here, im just saying
surley it would be better to say "look Officer X, this raids really
pissed me off today and I cant cope with leading this bullshit any more
today, could you take over RL while I take a backseat and do warlock shit?". |
| Sumomo |
@Sardukar
several points
1) if we allow ppl to come who didnt give a fuck about signing on the RP,
why use the RP in first place? we allready have the attitude like
"bah, i just sign off, not giving a crap about taking any
responsability like actually signing in. i'll get an invite anyways"
and we allways have had it. THAT behaviour is our problem, not the RP, not
the forum-signup-system we had before
2) delegate work to the officer? dont make me laugh, why do you think we
take away work from officers instead giving them some? little hint: how
many times had rall to ask on forums to fill in the fucking attendance
post and it never got done? one of the reasons the RP was implemented btw.
3) RL: others are allready RL a lot more. specially blixten and kugai.
even mette, who made our new MC time record.
@Kaapio
if you think i'll leave the guild "as easy as this" just because
you and shammy post your unargumented bullshit here, you're wrong.
"wolves in sheep clothing" hahaha, omg you are so funny.
why dont you take your bunch of wolves, and do like others have done
before: get the fuck out of here.
i am actually thankful that you finally showed your "true face"...
took you long enough. very pathetic btw, wasnt it you, who i asked to
rejoin the guild the day i came back (might be wrong, my memory, ya know)?
you knew me back then allready. i never changed, i've allways been the
same... why the fuck did you come back to r4o? go pest away already if you
feel so unhappy... and take all those "wolves" with you. maybe
then, the guild finally starts to have a progress. try make you own guild,
let's see how well you do.
the only thing that makes me feel unhappy is, that rall was not online
last 24h. and missed all this... and now will get it like an overdose. he
doesn't deserve that. |
| Gank |
regarding the signoff-rule. i can
understand the thoughts that originated it but it obviously isnt working
"for" the guild. maybe time to be a bit pragmatic?
regarding sumos comment about the officers; if i took you seriously id be
offended |
| Sardukar |
Firstly, can we keep the personal
flaming down. The people here dont need to like eachother enough to wax
eachothers dicks, but we are supposed to have a conversation about the
problems the guild is having. Lets face it, R4O is in trouble, barley a
raid in two weeks and this in turn has lead to more people "finding
summer" and missing raids. OK theres alot of bad feeling about these
issues, but its been building up for months and now its all coming out,
lets actually talk about find solitions.
To your points:
1) Aye, some people dont give a crap about the RP its true. But punishing
the other 30+ people who use the raid planner is exactly the wrong way of
doing things. When the needed members are online but not allowed to come,
its a kick in the balls for those who are acutally in BRM waiting for the
order to move in.
2) Then why have officers? maybe we should just disband the officer
position entirley and have some standard buff macros which we can all
download? If an officer isnt performing his officer tacks then he needs to
answer to Rall, which is surley a better way of doing things than having
two people micromanage the entire guild.
3) Then hand over to these people when you get too pissed off to lead the
raid effectivley. Thats not a stab at you personaly, but somone too pissed
off to talk has no business leading 39 other people. RL Leader =
communication. |
| Genghis |
I was first contemplating doing a
long post about this. But, Ill try to be compact instead. I find it
amusing that Sumomos string of picture doesnt have me commenting on that
officers are getting flamed every time they comment something. Or the fact
that he left middiscussion and played his alt.
The RP: Its alot easier now. I disagree that the RP is to blame on all. I
believe that its inevitable to use, the old signup system was chaotic.
However, there should be alot more flexibility in it. We have to be able
to bring the appropriate ppl (when that was a problem) to the correct
raid. Having skilled MTs on Reserves (which has happened), at Vael fights
doesnt work. The system of cancelletion doesnt work either. There could be
a system of reforming it to 20mans, if the 40mans cant be filled. Or
anonymous raids like we�ve hade before.
Officers roles: To get cussed at during raids. There is a hypocracy when
ppl say that officers shouldnt argue during raids, espacially on VT - then
hearing Kaapio being a bad player in BWL. The commuication issue has been
addresed earlier. Since Sumomo is complaining of the lack of seriousness
in posts by Kaapio and Shammie - see what his comments was there.
Over and over again has there been said that officers role need to be
addresed. But Rall/Sumomo want a centralized system - where Sumomo does
tons of work and Officers are supposed to be mouthpieces and defend/explain
decisions/rules they just heard of themselfs to Members. And noone seems
to enjoy the system, even though some might defend it. When raids get
cancelled, officers should be able to find an alternative - but todays
system and culture leaves them passive.
//
Today - I am a wolf.
AS OF NOW - IM LEAVING THE GUILD. For those who are staying, wishing you
the best of luck. I wont be able to get online until tonight - so kick me
when U see this. Ive done my effort in this guild, been a constant member
thru thick and thin. Those who think Im leaving on a whim, being sulky,
just dont know how long Ive been here and the effort Ive put in. I expact
to get flamed.
Rall: Its because of you that I havent left this guild earlier. U are
truly one of the most spectacular persons Ive met thru this game. It hurts
me to leave you - and it has hurt me to hear you in pain basically every
time we raid. I miss the old days badly. I met Sete/Mari in Silithus a
couple of days ago - and that almost made me cry. They where still wearing
the blue stuff we had back in the days during our first tries at ONY, MC
and ZG. I seem to be an artifact of this guild - so my time is up.
With a sincere sence of loss
/
Genghis |
| Sumomo |
| Sardukar wrote: |
1) Aye, some people dont give a crap about the RP
its true. But punishing the other 30+ people who use the raid
planner is exactly the wrong way of doing things. When the needed
members are online but not allowed to come, its a kick in the
balls for those who are acutally in BRM waiting for the order to
move in.
|
so, we got a governement with laws... some ppl. are anarchyst damaging the
"system"... which damages the people. and instead of sorting
that out, we better change the whole system to anarchy?
listen guys, if the raids get canceled so easily lately, you actually
should be THANKFUL.
as for me, i got sick fucking tired of spending more time trying to fill
slots in a raid than actually raiding. so if sign-ups are missing, raid
gets canceled forwards and those "30 guys" actually dont waste
their time.
you want to raid? ok, tell your class mates TO FUCKING SIGN UP FOR RAIDS.
isn't hard, takes 1 click, ya know. if they cant fucking be bothered with
that... well i think rall has a solution in mind already.
| Quote: |
2) Then why have officers? maybe we should just disband the
officer position entirley and have some standard buff macros which
we can all download? If an officer isnt performing his officer
tacks then he needs to answer to Rall, which is surley a better
way of doing things than having two people micromanage the entire
guild.
|
why do we need officers? to be honest, seeing the poor work many of them
did in the past: i wonder exactly the same. even now, they're not able to
make their people sign up... how hard can that be?
| Quote: |
3) Then hand over to these people when you get too pissed off to
lead the raid effectivley. Thats not a stab at you personaly, but
somone too pissed off to talk has no business leading 39 other
people. RL Leader = communication. |
has already been done almost allways. even more: when i am RL in certain
encounters, there is nothing to communicate coz everybody knows what to do
and is doing it right.
but i don't know how 2) and 3) have anything to do woth the topic here. we
were talking about "zomg how crappy" the raidplanner is, huh?
yes, the guild is passing through a difficult period... but instead of
finding a solution to the problem (well, would be nice if they realize
which the problem is in first place) or just relax a little during summer,
they prefer to blame stuff like the raidplanner, the website down for 7
days or ventrilo lagging for 3 days... |
| Sardukar |
Ok, lets not blame the RP, but lets
dont blame the damn summer either. Other guilds are still raiding AND
making progress. Your right, this past week has been bloody hard on the
guild, however I dont think you realise the damage it has done.
People are FAR from thankful for the cancelations and I have heard
dissatisfaction from all levels from pretorian right down to rectuit.
People ARE considering alternatives and we are going to lose more than one
person at this rate.
| Sumomo wrote: |
| why do we need officers? to be honest, seeing the
poor work many of them did in the past: i wonder exactly the same. |
Then disband the damn rank and save us the frustration of wondering what
the fuck its for. |
| Rall |
Guys listen everyone please just
calm down
First I wanna say that I uderstand totally why you want to take your leave
Genghis and I will miss you
I think all of us from time to time have felt the same
Lets face it mates it can be a hell of a lot easier to start wagging our
fingers at each other than identifying the true problem
Well I'm going to spell it out for you
We have been raiding now for a long time and have faced many adversities
along the way because we chose to the take the most dificult route in this
game - playing hardcore without being hardcore
So from time to time we have had to deal with attendance issues, attitude
problems and the like with our members because of the fact that we are not
as strict as some guilds at this level - then instead of banding together
as we should do we all seem to blame each other.
We have a personnel problem at the moment once again. We took in loads of
recruits to replace a bunch who have left and not all of them are making
the grade. Therefore we need to stop blaming the system and just get rid
of the ppl who aren't signing up.
A fresh bunch of recruits and a little resolve is all that is needed here |
| Kaapio |
| Sumomo wrote: |
@Kaapio
if you think i'll leave the guild "as easy as this" just
because you and shammy post your unargumented bullshit here,
you're wrong.
"wolves in sheep clothing" hahaha, omg you are so funny.
why dont you take your bunch of wolves, and do like others have
done before: get the fuck out of here.
i am actually thankful that you finally showed your "true
face"... took you long enough. very pathetic btw, wasnt it
you, who i asked to rejoin the guild the day i came back (might be
wrong, my memory, ya know)? you knew me back then allready. i
never changed, i've allways been the same... why the fuck did you
come back to r4o? go pest away already if you feel so unhappy...
and take all those "wolves" with you. maybe then, the
guild finally starts to have a progress. try make you own guild,
let's see how well you do.
the only thing that makes me feel unhappy is, that rall was not
online last 24h. and missed all this... and now will get it like
an overdose. he doesn't deserve that. |
You want to talk about pathetic? You don't even need words for that, just
take a glimpse at the mirror you arrogant fuck.
Like Genghis said, the fact that you conviniently failed to include what
he said at the officer chat makes me uncapable of taking this seriously at
all, as that phrase sums up everything that is wrong with the picture.
Oh yeah, I've known you for a long time Sumomo, long enough to understand
that you have always overloaded your self with work.
Back in the day you used to be both, the warlock and druid praetorian
while handling the raid leader duties. It hasn't chanced, and maybe that
is the reason for all of the shit been dumped on our heads? You work too
damn hard your self so everything we do comes across as childsplay?
I never rejoined the guild becouse of you, stop with the over crediting
already. I joined becouse of Rall, becouse he gave a promise that the
guild would go back to it's roots.
To be honest, I thought that it's just me that thinks something is wrong,
but then when I have most of the officers telling me how they feel exactly
the same, they all can't be wrong.
You are not the only reason why we feel like crap in here. We are fucking
relics of how this guild used to be. When people said that they've seen
Sete and Mari around, the first comments that popped up were 'who are they?',
made me really wonder. Your antics are just the final straw.
*
Fair enough, I too will take me leave today, and as ridicilous it might
seem since it has happened before, I will miss the guild. Even you Sumomo,
in some fucked up way.
But I hope you understand that there must be fault in your end also, even
though noone is trying to take anything away from you. You are a sad
little man, and I think the tits of our lady members agree on this, but
you always got the job done, for better or for worse.
And Rall when you got a chance to read all of this, you know how I feel
about you so I don't have to go on about it.
For the rest of the officers, good luck with what ever you do, if you stay
in Rage, try to preserve the old pieces that still remain in it.
Consider your self as a winner, Sumo. |
| Shammrock |
i can say i will too make a
decision today about my future in R4O , i really dont want to be in a
guild with a stupid arogant person who pisses loads people off all the
time ie sumomo , i have so many friends here i just dont know if i can
leave them behind damnit , thats the reason ive stayed these last couple
of weeks . will let you know asap . |
| Sumomo |
| Shammrock wrote: |
| i can say i will too make a decision today about
my future in R4O , i really dont want to be in a guild with a
stupid arogant person who pisses loads people off all the time ie
sumomo , i have so many friends here i just dont know if i can
leave them behind damnit , thats the reason ive stayed these last
couple of weeks . will let you know asap . |
if so many ppl. is pissed AT ME, they have two choices:
either they show fucking BALLS and say it in public (here on the forums,
and starting with the tribunes/officers), making me reconsider some
stuff...
or just get the fucking hell out of here and make their own guild, if they
are so pissed.
i am still waiting to see all that "wolves in sheep cloth"... or
were they just product of a very rich imagination?
we dont need people who cant be arsed with anything, who show no patience
whatsoever and who like to do "conspiracy in the dark" trying to
convince others how bad things are. we dont need that kind of ppl. be it
recruits, soldiers or officers.
there is ppl. in this guild whose maximum achievement has been showing up
in 3 consecutive raids and they think they are the motherfucking king of
the world. they smell some problem and start to bitch around instead of
trying to find a solution and when they see how clueless they are, they
start to conspire in the dark to try to get the more adpets to their fake
cause as possible.
to that people only 2 words:
/GQUIT PLEASE |
| Shammrock |
what a fucking arsehole , your the
lucky one here ! when u quit the guild , do you remember all them pages u
made on this forums , all the people who u called allsorts of names etc
including rall , then you quit the guild/ or got kicked dont remember ,
and then omg rall lets you back in ! you lucky "boy" , so your
the lucky one for being invited back into this guild after all what you
said about people , if i was the GM i wudve have told you to pissoff , no
chance of you getting back in ! but it was ralls decision . |
| Sumomo |
| Shammrock wrote: |
| if i was the GM i wudve have told you to pissoff ,
no chance of you getting back in ! |
good that you arent the GM then, huh?
| Quote: |
but it was ralls decision . |
guess why? |
| Kaapio |
| Sumomo wrote: |
| i am still waiting to see all that "wolves in
sheep cloth"... or were they just product of a very rich
imagination? |
Reading comprehension FTW was it?
What I meant with this was people that felt the exact same way we do, but
don't have them balls to come forward with their opinions. Quite possible
becouse they are afraid cos they know they will get their balls chpped off
by you right a way.
| Quote: |
| we dont need people who cant be arsed with
anything, who show no patience whatsoever and who like to do
"conspiracy in the dark" trying to convince others how
bad things are. we dont need that kind of ppl. be it recruits,
soldiers or officers. |
Haha, did I mention something about too much self credit?
Listen, noone is wasting any of their precious time 'conspiring' against
you. There is no conspiracy, but instead mutual dislike and unhappiness.
But, you do as you see fit, so will we. |
| Sumomo |
| Sumomo wrote: |
don't count on me for ANYTHING. i won't raid i
wont update the RP (as it's useless anyways) or anything the like.
|
well, i do realize that i have some responsabilities and duties, thus i
will not be able to follow that statement. nothing said in this post will
affect my duties.
thx to kugai DKP and RP (dkp20 that is) updated. |
| Shammrock |
Put this in the memebers forum btw
so everyone can see whats going on behind the scenes please . |
| Kaapio |
Yeah agree.
So that it doesn't come across as 'conspiring in the dark'. |
| Sardukar |
| Sumomo wrote: |
either they show fucking BALLS and say it in public (here on the
forums, and starting with the tribunes/officers), making me
reconsider some stuff...
|
As kaapio said, you tell people to show the balls to say what the feel in
the forum and when they do to make a concentrated attempt to shread them
apart for the same reason. Ideas are dismissed in an instant, problems are
apparently solved by "we will do this my way or not at all" and
anyone who DARES to aswer back gets the same treatment you have been
banned from the WOW forums so many times for.
Kaapios comments in Gchat and here are acutally because he gives a shit
about the guild. If he couldnt give a flying fuck he wouldnt have bothered
commenting at all. He simply stated that there IS a big problem with the
guild (which anyone with a brain can see) and that in his opinion it was
the RP (hes entitled to his opinion). The response, a screaming tyrade
attacking him. You know, this whole thing could have been quite reasonable
if the post started with "ok some of you belive the RP is the
problem, I dissagree (insert reason X here), if you have any suggestion to
make it better please post it for consideration". But noooo, thats
far too sensible, lets make comments like:
| Sumomo wrote: |
my final conclusion is: untilll our OH SO SMART
officers find a SOLUTION to our problem, don't count on me for
ANYTHING. i won't raid i wont update the RP (as it's useless
anyways) or anything the like.
until this post comes to a final decision and gets closed, sumomo
doesn't exist.
i am THIS far '' from cancelling my wow accounts and this guild is
the only thing that holds me back. i have put 75% of my wow career
and countless real life hours into this guild and i am not willing
to take anymore bullshit if it's not backep up with 101% proof and
facts. |
Christ, if a recruit pulled a tantrum like this out of thier arse they
would be banned from raiding for a week. With comments like that, you
wonder why the following posts attack you? Very constructive. Sumomo your
position as manager of everything is self inflicted, in this post youve
already made it clear you do not want any officer interfearing with any
guild operations as we are apparently usless bastards. Thats fine, but if
you want to lead everything dont scream and bawl at everyone when they
suggest there may be a problem in the guild. Wanna see what a good leader
looks like, look at Rall. Posts are constructive, none flaming and
emotionaly tempered. Do you really think you can scream the guild into
submission over every single issue until we ask no more questions at all?
We question because we care about what happens in the guild. |
| Sumomo |
this might go to the member section
as soon as the other tribunes and officers actually say something...
coz as for now, this post is the same as allways: 2 guys vs sumomo and
thats not even worse the trash bin.
so, i am waiting for more officers to post something regarding to this
post... and remember, the post was about: IS THE RP AND THE RULES BINDED
TO IT THE SOURCE OF ALL OUR PROBLEMS?
you can leave the "blame sumomo" for another post... which bt is
already in the public section, go post there.
PS: shammy and kaap didnt u leave the guild allready? why are u posting
here then? this is no longer of your business. |
| Dhalasaz |
It's sad that things are like that at the moment.
I dont have anything against Sumomo, raidplanner or the canceled raids but
all that argueing and yelling to each other among the old members/officers
makes me really feel bad.
I have always anjoyed to be in this guild and haven't ever before even
think about leaving. But now, first time i dont like to be in here 
This just isn't fun anymore... |
| Kaapio |
Fair enough.
PS: Mysterious forces are at work, it's in the members forum for everyone
to enjoy. |
| Gank |
ive allready said what i thought
about the rules, now for my opinion on sumomos arrogant manners: they are
going too far and costing us far too many good friends and members |
| Shammrock |
STFU and get back to work allrdy ,
i'll decide if/when i wanna leave this guild , and ofc its my buisness
were the only ones who have opend our mouths at you and obviously u dont
fuckin like it ,
1 part of me is saying , why shud i let one dick head win , therefore i
shud stay .
the other part of me is saying , i dont wanna be in a guild with this dick
head. there fore i shud leave |
| Sumomo |
@Sardukar
there is a difference between some1 who is pissed off and blaming whatever
he wants to blame without a fucking backup argument (aka: shammrock and
kaapio) or actually some1 REALLY CAREING and trying to find an solution.
let me tell you something: the most clever reply in this post is not mine,
not yours and not even ralls... the cleverest reply to this post is
actually the first one from micca. a simple idea: planning less raids, but
realize and fill those who are planned.
what i read from the rest of ppl: BLAME SUMOMO ... and as i said: there is
another post allready.
i have given FACTS allready why our RP is not to blame. let me recap a few
of them:
* other guilds have same attendance problems and they dont use RP and they
dont have such strict rules
* also other guilds actually USE the RP and dont have problems
* the screenshot about a comment that JILL made is the CLEAREST example on
how thr RP is not the problem.
and this are only 3... i am still waiting to see ONE... fucking ONE SINGLE
fact/proof or whatever from kaapio or shammrock WHY the RP is guilty of
all our problems and NOT the people who can't get arsed. ONE fucking proof.
but they are too busy with their hate war. |
| Sumomo |
| Kaapio wrote: |
Fair enough.
PS: Mysterious forces are at work, it's in the members forum for
everyone to enjoy. |
what a big mistery indeed... somehow it found it's way back to the tribune
section and "some1" lost his praetorian access on the forums. oh
the drudgery how is it possible.
again: this post might go into the public section... when more officer
said something ABOUT THE TOPIC. btw dhala, your post doesn't say much tbh. |
| Micca |
And please stop with this kind of
language, it does not fit here and it does not help in anyway. Lets keep
this constructive and not some kindergarden. |
| Shammrock |
ok micca , i'll stop with the
language sorry . |
| Dhalasaz |
It's doesn't say much because i
have nothing to say...
Only thing what bothers me is that argueing and bullshit.
Im not blameing you more than anybody else and I didn't have any problems
before yesterday. |
| Sardukar |
| Sumomo wrote: |
| again: this post might go into the public section...
when more officer said something ABOUT THE TOPIC. btw dhala, your
post doesn't say much tbh. |
I disagree. From post no.1 this thread has been about what opionions we
are permitted to have. Maybe a fresh post should be made to conatain ideas
on how to fix the guild.
This post is really about how somomo aproaches people with alternative
ideas to his own.
Sorry Sumomo, I respect the progress you managed to make the guild make in
instances and your actually a great laugh sometimes. But your tantrums
aimed towards other members or entire raids when things hit the fan are
IMO the biggest problem R4O currently has. Im not saying "get out",
im saying maybe take a few deep breaths and manage your anger before
screaming down VT or letting rip on the keyboard. |
| Sumomo |
| Sardukar wrote: |
| But your tantrums aimed towards other members or
entire raids when things hit the fan are IMO the biggest problem
R4O currently has. |
weird, it didn't become a problem till a couple of pissed officers took a
rant on a system that actually has nothing to do with our attendance
problems... and when prooven how wrong they are, they take the piss at me,
which is allways easy.
and now suddenly, ofc, the RP is not the problem anymore, but i am.
so, what you are saying, sardukar is:
1) shammrock and kaapio are wrong. the RP is NOT the problem, but sumomo
is the problem
and
2) the fact that 15+ members are on vacation/out of playtime/whatever has
nothing to do with our attendance problems, the only to blame for our
attendance problem is sumomo, because sumomo is to harsh in raids and with
officers.
3) everybody is doing it's job perfectly, performing perfectly, attending
perfectly, there is absolutely NO REASON WHATSOEVER why sumomo would have
to bark at anyone
right?
|
| Kaapio |
The only thing you have proven here
is that you are a douchebag.
Like I said, I had a long, relatively constructive post in the making as a
reply to this thread, but the more I wrote it the more I realiced how
utterly pointless it all was, since you already had more than obivously
came to the conclusion that nothing constructive or right on target would
come out of our heads anyways.
In that post, I mentioned how the raid planner in its current form causes
all these troubles we have. How Rage has always had a history of filling
raids bunch of people that are either running a bit late or unsure of
their attendace for that evening. I also mentioned how promising the raid
planner looked from the start, and how it could be turned to an efficient
feature with only minor tweaks.
If you ask my opinion in a mather, you'll have it.
But if you ask it in a way you did in your original post wich did nothing
but make fun of both me and Shammrock, you'll get a kick in the gut.
Not to mention the blatant fact that you left out what Genghis pointed out,
since it was aimed as a critic towards you.
Or the childish bullshit at the bottom of that very post, wich made it
more than hard to take your post as a serious inquiry rather than a
melodramatic penis sizing. |
| Aurogar |
What a great way to start the day,
headache and this post.
I don't think the RP (The software) has anything to do with our attandance
issues, of all the sign up system we have had this is the best and easiset
one for everyone. But problems can arise from people not understanding the
system and the rules.
Summer is probably one of our problems, overall gaming always goes down
over summer (vacation, nice weater, etc) and as we have lots of people
that aren't hardcore this hits us harder than some other guilds. People
want to enjoy the nice weather and the days they want to raid gets lower.
Here Micca had a good suggestion, lets plan less raids. Because if lots of
people wants to raid less, they maybe sign up for 2 raids instead of the 4
the usually sign up for. If lots of people does this, and choose different
raids the result will be that all raids are cancled due to too low signups.
If we lower the amount of raids we have in a week maybe it will help.
Now we get to something that isn't really on-topic but has a big impact on
how good the guild works:
Some officers complete unability to have a serious disscusion over stuff
they don't agree on. I have seen it lots of times before and once again in
this post.
What's the point of you flaming each other all the time? It won't help the
issue being discused it won't help the guild. It will only serve to make
the post into a big fight and nothing good will come from that.
All I see in this post is repeating of the same things, you are making
post after post after post saying something you have already said, almost
nothing new begin taken into the discusion (most of it is flame anyway so
I guess that's why).
You have to start taking it easy and respect each others opinions even if
you don't agree. If you are too angry to make a good post, don't post,
it's as easy as that. Have you never had lessons in school on how to have
discusions?
And if you try to answer this post with one of those unconstructive flame
post you have done earlier I won't respond. So please calm down and help
solve this instead of all this fighting. |
| Kaapio |
The main beef I have with this
whole thing is the fact that those very opinions that you ask all of us to
respect, are being shot down in flames before we have a chance to even
present them fully.
If you read the initial post Sumomo made, does it really seem to you as a
serious inquiry or just a mockery towards me and Shammrock?
Sardukar tried to reason just like you are trying now, and look at how his
post turned out.
PS: Not flaming in any way Aurogar. |
| Blixten |
Okay first of all:
| Quote: |
Raidplanner: A neccisary evil that sometimes
operates like a complete mystery to most. Ok, it ties into some of
the other stuff we use like dkp (I think) and is a lower admin
than the old method. One thing I would change about it is not
following it like its some sort of holy scripture, for example if
your not on the RP, you cant come to the raid, even if there is
space and that person is needed. To me that seems a little counter
prodictive, we cancel or struggle through a raid for the sake of
some text not being on the RP. Instead of gimping ourselves in
this way, maybe we should say Signups have prority, followed by
sign offs, then last priorty is those who havnt singned at all.
When we are short of, for example, a preist on a raid, we have one
on line, but, he is willing to come, but hasnt used the RP and we
turn him away, how are we helping the guilds progress. Sure, this
person is "punished" for his admin error, but so are the
30+ people in the raid. Perhaps we need to step back and start
looking at things like a group of PLAYERS who are in the GAME to
HAVE FUN, rather than looking at the RP like traffic wardens
looking to issue a ticket. |
- Amen to that.
And secondly: (off topic)
I think Sumomo is an excellent leader, without him we wouldnt be where we
are now. BUT everyone knows that Sumomo is rocksolid like the terminator
or something. But underneath that rocksolid shell is a human being and you
know what humans can do? They can change. Thats right we all can. So if
there is something you want improved in both the guild and the ppl in it.
Just say so. Like me, I want what Sardukar said. A more flexible RP.
Allthough I still want people to fucking sign up for raids. I mean come
one! Saying the raidplanner sucks is just stupid. It is so much easier
than the forum signups we hade before. And stop the arguening, we are
loosing good members because of it. LETS KEEP THIS ON TOPIC NOW! = Whats
the solution for the problems we are having? |
| Sardukar |
| Sumomo wrote: |
so, what you are saying, sardukar is:
1) shammrock and kaapio are wrong. the RP is NOT the problem, but
sumomo is the problem
and
2) the fact that 15+ members are on vacation/out of playtime/whatever
has nothing to do with our attendance problems, the only to blame
for our attendance problem is sumomo, because sumomo is to harsh
in raids and with officers.
3) everybody is doing it's job perfectly, performing perfectly,
attending perfectly, there is absolutely NO REASON WHATSOEVER why
sumomo would have to bark at anyone
right? |
What Sardukar is saying is:
1) Shammrock and Kaapio have the right to voice thier opionions about the
RP without an attempt to publicly ridicule them by you. We were having a
good conversation regarding the RP in officer chat, you come online, take
it as a personal attack (for god knows what reason) and go on the
defensive.
2) I didnt say that, I dont belive your tantrums stop raid sign ups, I do
belive however they make raids a chore. However, sumomos "harshness"
has cost us more than one member not in the raid, but from the guild all
together.
3) Belive it or not, some raid leaders can get the job done without
screaming at people. I seem to recall and amazingly fun BWL raid where we
killed Razor, Vael, and the lootlord without Kugai screaming at the raid
once, everyone was entertained and thus focused.
Ok?
Also
| Sumomo wrote: |
| and when prooven how wrong they are, they take the
piss at me, which is allways easy. |
Can you link the thread your looking at because I honestly have no idea
what the hell your going on about here? any piss taking was due to the
totally childish nature of your post (im not playing any more until
someone admits Sumomo cant possibly be wrong). |
| Darkhalo |
Yes the RP and alot of rules that
go with it are the problem I agree. We where doing fine when we had our
own sign ups and we did forum posts...
I mean whats the deal with if they havnt used the RP you cant come...thats
why we cant fill raids coz people might think damn I cant come that day nm
I wont sign the planner and sign off and the guess what peoples plans
change and they can come and get refused an invite purley coz they did not
use the RP...The number of times we could of saved a raid with people who
didnt sign up is crazy.
My suggestions...
1. Go old skool (if you remember how the guild was when we 1st started MC)
2. Trash RP is sucks simple as...
3. Who cares if you didnt sign up on forums or raid planer let people in
to save raids...
4. Old skool all the way baby thats why I joined R4O |
| Aurogar |
Of course my post isn't directed at
only you Kappio, Sumomo's behavior must of course change too. We can't
have people that are in leading postions fighting like this instead of
putting their time and energy into solving the problem.
Nothing will be solved by people complaining about someone complaining
about them. People need to accept that they can be wrong and solve their
problem. |
| Kaapio |
Raid Planner in its current
form sucks arse.
Priority to those who actually signed up, second priority to those who
signed off and last resort spots for those who didn't even use it.
Fair to the people who sign up, also keeping things relatively fair to
those who bother to use the system and pushing the people who don't down
in the pecking order.
This is something what I had in mind, and many others seem to think that
way too.
Like I said, raid planner like it is today, sucks big time. Tweak it a
bit, fine-tune it to better fit the label of a 'friendly
guild' that Rage claims to be. |
| Sumomo |
| Kaapio wrote: |
Like I said, I had a long, relatively constructive
post in the making as a reply to
this thread
|
| Quote: |
n that post, I mentioned how the raid planner in its current form
causes all these troubles we have.
|
what i read: oh! i have a magical artifact in my bag who can grant
anything you wishes. but i can't
show it to you, sorry.
i still cant see that "how the raid planner in its current form
causes all these troubles we have. "
caree to explain please?
| Quote: |
How Rage has always had a history of filling raids bunch of people
that are either running a bit late
or unsure of their attendace for that evening.
|
that is what offsigning is for and also why we keep recruiting ppl.
| Quote: |
I also mentioned how promising the raid planner looked from the
start, and how it could be turned to an
efficient feature with only minor tweaks.
|
stop telling us that you have marvelous ideas and instead tell us those
ideas.
| Quote: |
But if you ask it in a way you did in your original post wich did
nothing but make fun of both me and
Shammrock, you'll get a kick in the gut.
|
PARDON? WHAT? i posted screenshots, i asked for FACTS that proof your RANT
against the RP and what do i
get?
| Kaapio wrote: |
I had a long post written about this, but what
Shammrock says pretty much sums it up.
| Shammrock wrote: |
| "sumomo turns into a little
baby" /cry more ffs, grow up u noob ! |
Is it just me, or does this scream quote of the week potential! |
and you fucking dare to come here and say I MADE FUN OF YOU?
| Quote: |
Not to mention the blatant fact that you left out what Genghis
pointed out, since it was aimed as a
critic towards you.
|
i didnt even see genghs post until you just said it, because he posted it
while i was making a reply
and then it went to page 2. i will answer his post now.
| Quote: |
Or the childish bullshit at the bottom of that very post, wich
made it more than hard to take your post
as a serious inquiry rather than a melodramatic penis sizing. |
i am still waiting for all that facts, prooves, improvements, and yadda
yadda yadda you claim to have.
i keep seeing "blame sumomo" everywhere and still no1 apart from
micca has said anything constructive
to solve the problems. (will read genghis post now which might bring more
constructive stuff) |
| Sumomo |
| Kaapio wrote: |
| The main beef I have with this whole thing is the
fact that those very opinions that you ask all of us to respect,
are being shot down in flames before we have a chance to even
present them fully. |
maybe next time, start posting "the fully" part instead of
wasting time with stuff like quote of a quote of a quote saying "sumomo
is a crybaby" |
| Darkhalo |
Yes the RP and alot of rules that
go with it are the problem I agree. We where doing fine when we had our
own sign ups and we did forum posts...
I mean whats the deal with if they havnt used the RP you cant come...thats
why we cant fill raids coz people might think damn I cant come that day nm
I wont sign the planner and sign off and the guess what peoples plans
change and they can come and get refused an invite purley coz they did not
use the RP...The number of times we could of saved a raid with people who
didnt sign up is crazy.
My suggestions...
1. Go old skool (if you remember how the guild was when we 1st started MC)
2. Trash RP is sucks simple as...
3. Who cares if you didnt sign up on forums or raid planer let people in
to save raids...
4. Old skool all the way baby thats why I joined R4O |
| Sardukar |
and yet again, with no discussion
you have just ATTACKED some suggestions people have made.
/golfclap |
| Kaapio |
Sumomo, have someone spank your
arse red, so it fits your baboon like arguing.
Or simple go read what Sardukar wrote on the bottom of the last page. |
| Shammrock |
he hasnt liked us opening our
mouths has he . |
| Gank |
Priority to those who actually
signed up, second priority to those who signed off and last resort spots
for those who didn't even use it.
good suggestion |
| Kaapio |
| Quote: |
PARDON? WHAT? i posted screenshots, i asked for
FACTS that proof your RANT against the RP and what do i
get?
Kaapio wrote:
I had a long post written about this, but what Shammrock says
pretty much sums it up.
Shammrock wrote:
"sumomo turns into a little baby" /cry more ffs, grow up
u noob !
Is it just me, or does this scream quote of the week potential!
and you fucking dare to come here and say I MADE FUN OF YOU? |
You really are an idiot?
Is this the idiots way of asking our opinion in a constructive manner?:
| Quote: |
| my final conclusion is: untilll our OH SO SMART
officers find a SOLUTION to our problem, don't count on me for
ANYTHING. i won't raid i wont update the RP (as it's useless
anyways) or anything the like. |
Please, enlighten me. |
| Sumomo |
| Shammrock wrote: |
| he hasnt liked us opening our mouths has he . |
i never liked motherfuckers who harrass people when they run out of
arguments/facts/whatever.
i am still waiting for you, mister shammy, to post ANYTHING constructive
on what you hate so much about the RP... only thing i read from you is the
"sumomo sucks, doesnt let me tell my opinion" when in fact YOU
HAVE NO FUCKING OPINION TO SAY
kid1: your dad sucks
kid2: why?
kid1: dunno, he sucks.
kid1: aka: shammrock and kaapio
in my opinion guys, the sooner you get the fuck out of here, the better.
besides, the only reason why kaapio can still post here is because he was
in more than 1 forum user grp and when i deleted his praetorian access i
didnt see he still got tribune access from when he was tribune.
something i'll fix right now btw. |
| Kaapio |
| Gank wrote: |
Priority to those who actually signed up, second
priority to those who signed off and last resort spots for those
who didn't even use it.
good suggestion |
Not really, since raid planner is a flawless thing that works like a
charm.
Lets all /pat the raid planner, ask it to come around xmas time for a
dinner and offer our daughters (all of them!) to be married with it. |
| Darkhalo |
| Gank wrote: |
Priority to those who actually signed up, second
priority to those who signed off and last resort spots for those
who didn't even use it.
good suggestion |
/agree Gank if we have to use RP |
| Rasping |
I'm not gonna take part in the
incredible flaming going on here.
About the raidplanner, I agree that we should allow ppl that didn't use it
in to raids but as a last resort.
Instead of ppl getting no-show 20 min after invites they instead loose
their spot and are placed last in the que to get into the raid.
If they don't show up when the raid is full(or is canceled) they get the
no-show.
Que: Confirmed - Reserves - Singed offs - Ppl that didn't use the RP -
confirmed or reserves that showed up too late for invites(atm called
no-shows). |
| Sardukar |
| Shammrock wrote: |
| he hasnt liked us opening our mouths has he . |
PLEASE look at this quote sumomo and think about your motivations before
posting your next reply.
Come on, your first post here was not intended as a constructive post in
any way at all even you have to admit that. In that once post, you
insulted the officers, martyred yourself and aimed to score a point of
one-up manship on kaapio and shammy (for some reason)
What is the problem with considering a tweak to the RP rules? Why is any
question against the RP attacked with such vicious attacks? Did you design
the system personaly?
You said it yourself. R4O isnt a hardcore guild, but the RP in its current
form IS a hardcore system. Whats not hardcore about telling people they
have zero chance of getting in a raid they didnt sign up for several hours
in advance?
The 3-tier system seems ideal once we recruit some more members, as (in
theory at least) we should have reserves at all raids. Signed up get first
pick, signed off take second and unsigned get the scraps that are left (but
manage to save a raid). |
| Shammrock |
why dont u fuck off outta here and
not me , the RP isnt on my mind at the mo , your need sorting out big time
!
and i'll tell you somthing , why dont you treat people as if they was in
the same room as you in RL , i tell you somthing if they was you would be
quiet as a mouse , how old are you 32 ? pfff i think your lieing , you
seem like 2 to me , its ok acting the big man behind a screen isnt it ? |
| Sumomo |
Darkhalo & co do you actually
remember WHY we changed the sign up system?
do i have to remind you guys the eternal whining on how 30 guys where
waiting 2 hours in BRM to fill the slots, because we DIDNT KNOW if we
would be able to fill the raid?
do i have to remind you how rall asked for over 2 month to officers to
fill in a fucking attendance post?
and kaapio (even if he cant read anymore): the RP might not be flawless,
but from there to claim "it is the only fault of all the illness this
guild has" like you did on officer chat, is a great difference.
you know what makes the RP suck so much? ppl. not giving a flying fuck on
taking enough responsability to sign up, not even to sign off. and guess
what? it was the same before, when ppl. in their classforums didnt update
their availability.
so all you guys agree that if we remove the RP, suddenly 50 guys will pop
out of nowhere and fill our raids every day? aha... any data or fact to
back that up? |
| Sumomo |
| Shammrock wrote: |
| and i'll tell you somthing , why dont you treat
people as if they was in the same room as you in RL , i tell you
somthing if they was you would be quiet as a mouse , how old are
you 32 ? pfff i think your lieing , you seem like 2 to me , its ok
acting the big man behind a screen isnt it ? |
if you were in my same room i already would have beaten the fuck out of
you and kicked you out of the building. you can be glad that only rall can
remove members from the guild.
oh, one final warning: another bullshit post of you, keeping fucking with
me instead of bringing up what the fuck your opinions might be on HOW TO
IMPROVE THE RP/ATTENDANCE and you can go spam the application forum, coz
that will be the only thing you'll see on this web. |
| Sardukar |
| Sumomo wrote: |
the only reason why kaapio can still post here is
because he was in more than 1 forum user grp and when i deleted
his praetorian access i didnt see he still got tribune access from
when he was tribune.
something i'll fix right now btw. |
.... just.... pathetic.... |
| Shammrock |
yea right you wud have , your just
a little pussy hiding behind a screen ! wud love to see you try |
| Sumomo |
| Sardukar wrote: |
.... just.... pathetic.... |
he left the guild, there is no reason whatsoever to be able for him to
post in this forums. |
| Shammrock |
this is getting personal btw , if
anyone doesnt like it i suggest not reading this anymore . |
| Sumomo |
| Shammrock wrote: |
| yea right you wud have , your just a little pussy
hiding behind a screen ! wud love to see you try |
forum user removed.
there is plenty of people in this post willing to come with constructive
ideas. i will not allow anymore bullshit from anyone. i ran out of
patience long ago. |
| Sardukar |
Interesting, with one hand you tell
us to post, and then you systematicly ridicule and dismiss each suggestion
with no consideration.
You are a worm sumomo. A totalitatarian little despot who cant even for a
moment consider that he may be wrong. I really hope you get comfort from
the RP in all its perfect glory. *sigh* I dont belive ive acutally tried
resoning with you.
I think ill take your suggestion and /gquit. Hope you find your little
army of robots to do your bidding.
As for the rest of you, its been a blast. Ive enjoyed my time here
immensley and I wish you the best of luck.
Sumomo: you win 
/cookie |
| Sumomo |
and finally some time to read
through genghos reply.
| Genghis wrote: |
I was first contemplating doing a long post about
this. But, Ill try to be compact instead. I find it amusing that
Sumomos string of picture doesnt have me commenting on that
officers are getting flamed every time they comment something. Or
the fact that he left middiscussion and played his alt.
|
well, it has prooved itself that they had absolutely NOTHING constructive
to say... as in another example it only went like this:
kid1: your dad sucks
kid2: why?
kid3: dunno, your dad sucks
the people involved in that screenshots have not been able to answer the
question WHY in over 5 pages...
| Quote: |
The RP: Its alot easier now. I disagree that the RP is to blame on
all. I believe that its inevitable to use, the old signup system
was chaotic. However, there should be alot more flexibility in it.
We have to be able to bring the appropriate ppl (when that was a
problem) to the correct raid. Having skilled MTs on Reserves (which
has happened), at Vael fights doesnt work. The system of
cancelletion doesnt work either. There could be a system of
reforming it to 20mans, if the 40mans cant be filled. Or anonymous
raids like we�ve hade before.
|
flexibility is something we were FORCED to take away more and more due the
problems we had in the past.
and about transforming to 20man: no-can-do because there are 20man runs
planned already and it would interfere with raid resets.
and it would be very fair when some1 who signed for 23:30 arrives and
can't raid because others have done the instance already.
| Quote: |
Officers roles: To get cussed at during raids. There is a
hypocracy when ppl say that officers shouldnt argue during raids,
espacially on VT - then hearing Kaapio being a bad player in BWL.
The commuication issue has been addresed earlier. Since Sumomo is
complaining of the lack of seriousness in posts by Kaapio and
Shammie - see what his comments was there.
|
this might be the thing where some, if not all, the problems with officers
start: officers have to learn that this a ONE WAY communication.
rall gives me orders. i give you orders. end of chain of communication. if
kaapio or whoever is not doing his job, then i will say it. period. there
is no possible "back-discussion" in middle of a raid.
if you want, i can make a real harsh example (something i would never do):
i could mention your mother in middle of a raid... and you would have to
swallow it up and sort it out on forums/whispers/pm/whatever.
| Quote: |
Over and over again has there been said that officers role need to
be addresed. But Rall/Sumomo want a centralized system - where
Sumomo does tons of work and Officers are supposed to be
mouthpieces and defend/explain decisions/rules they just heard of
themselfs to Members. And noone seems to enjoy the system, even
though some might defend it. When raids get cancelled, officers
should be able to find an alternative - but todays system and
culture leaves them passive.
|
i think rall made it pretty clear many times what the officer role is
suposed to be... but officers didnt like it and played "blind"
acting as if nothing had been said.
if officers role hasnt been "adressed" or very "clear"
that is because either rall or me didn't want to force you guys too much
because you were suposed to be our oldest, core and best friend members.
which apparently is not 100% accurate as the only thing we got from you so
far were infinite ammount of backstabs... be it by not doing your jobs,
leaving the guild, or just and plain trying to destroy anything we created
WITHOUT SOLID ARGUMENTS WHATSOEVER like kaapio and shammy tried here.
| Quote: |
Today - I am a wolf.
|
at least u got the balls.
| Quote: |
AS OF NOW - IM LEAVING THE GUILD. For those who are staying,
wishing you the best of luck. I wont be able to get online until
tonight - so kick me when U see this. Ive done my effort in this
guild, been a constant member thru thick and thin. Those who think
Im leaving on a whim, being sulky, just dont know how long Ive
been here and the effort Ive put in. I expact to get flamed.
|
you and me had many arguments over this time... however i still feel sad
that you leave. you allways had the guts and words to contradict me and
actually proof what you were saying.
| Quote: |
Rall: Its because of you that I havent left this guild earlier. U
are truly one of the most spectacular persons Ive met thru this
game. It hurts me to leave you - and it has hurt me to hear you in
pain basically every time we raid. I miss the old days badly. I
met Sete/Mari in Silithus a couple of days ago - and that almost
made me cry. They where still wearing the blue stuff we had back
in the days during our first tries at ONY, MC and ZG. I seem to be
an artifact of this guild - so my time is up.
|
nothing i could add... except if it wasnt for rall, i would not be here
either. i met mari&sete in BGs too and we talked a bit. they are not
playing seriously, just some pvp. they took a long break and will probably
take another big break when thet become bored again.
| Quote: |
With a sincere sence of loss
Genghis |
farewell, m8 |
| Sumomo |
| Sardukar wrote: |
Interesting, with one hand you tell us to post,
and then you systematicly ridicule and dismiss each suggestion
with no consideration.
|
sorry, i fail to see where anything that kaapio and shammrock posted in
last 5 pages did apport anything constructive to this post. i'll say it
clearly: their answers to this post are no longer welcome and even if they
finally came up with some backed up REASONS to justify their attack on the
RP system, i would not give a shit anymore.
| Quote: |
You are a worm sumomo. A totalitatarian little despot who cant
even for a moment consider that he may be wrong. I really hope you
get comfort from the RP in all its perfect glory. *sigh* I dont
belive ive acutally tried resoning with you.
|
i will consider that i am wrong, when you PROOF IT. something you guys are
1) not even trying or 2) failing miserabily
and yes, i am a despot. a despot who "works" 6 hours a day out
of the game to get the fucking guild moving. a "despot" who
achieved all the guild-goals so far, regardless all the problems we have
passed through.
and finally, a "despot" whose patience is over and who wont
tolerate any more fucking bullshit anymore.
| Quote: |
I think ill take your suggestion and /gquit. Hope you find your
little army of robots to do your bidding.
As for the rest of you, its been a blast. Ive enjoyed my time here
immensley and I wish you the best of luck.
|
well, sad to have persons like you leave, but it's your choice. |
| Sumomo |
well, as said: this post could go
to the member forum...but i am still missing many officers in this post. |
| Surmah |
I do not want to have any part of
this kind ridiculous bs(thats what this is... we fight here against each
other like kids).
Blaming and flaming etc bs does not make things better it just makes
things even worse!
I'm willing to discuss RP issues with other officers, if things are kept
in civiliced level. |
| Sumomo |
| Surmah wrote: |
| I'm willing to discuss RP issues with other
officers, if things are kept in civiliced level. |
then start please. i am impacient to hear whats going wrong here. |
| Rall |
The issues are now and always have
been attendance related.
Once we can rectify our attendance problems we will all find that the RP
was just an easy target to place the blame on something other than the
real issue.
I'm sure it equally frustrates us all that we go through periods where
such a huge % of our "guild mates" stop caring about signing up
for raids and whether or not if we have to cancel raids because they can't
be bothered.
In my opinion it is the single most difficult issue running a guild like
us who try desperately to accomplish endgame content without true hard
core mentalities - attendance related issues.
We need to just accept that it is what it is and when we go through
periods of complacent behaviour root out the problem children and replace
them with people who want to raid.
We need to do this as a collective.
It is just a shame when our frustrations lead us to a war of words amongst
ourselves rather than focusing on the task at hand.
I challenge us all in future to be a little less combative with each other
and a little more collective in solving problems constructively. |
| Dhalasaz |
| Surmah wrote: |
I do not want to have any part of this kind
ridiculous bs(thats what this is... we fight here against each
other like kids).
Blaming and flaming etc bs does not make things better it just
makes things even worse!
I'm willing to discuss RP issues with other officers, if things
are kept in civiliced level. |
I agree.
But I dont know do I want to be in a guild where oldest members are
calling each other assholes and saying that they would beat the hell out
of someone if they were in a same room  |
| Sumomo |
| Dhalasaz wrote: |
But I dont know do I want to be in a guild where... |
then i suggest you get your ideas clear. |
| Shammrock |
Well , just to let you know , im
not going to be responding to any posts in this thread anymore its closed
for me as far as im concerned until/if it goes public . |
| Sumomo |
| Shammrock wrote: |
| Well , just to let you know , im not going to be
responding to any posts in this thread anymore . its closed for me
as far as im concerned . |
who cares? you just DID post here btw, lol. |
| Micca |
Best thing to do is just close this
thread, start a new one about this topic because this is just redicilous. |
| Sumomo |
well, i promised that this post
will go into the public once most officers gave their 2c ON THE TOPIC...
not even half the officers have posted yet. |
| Dhalasaz |
This is my opinion about the topic:
Raid planner doesn't suck. It's easy way to handle raid signups and
attendance etc....But it Should be more flexible as it's now!
But still I actually cant understand why in the world signing on the raid
planner is so damn hard? Even a 4 year old kid could do that.
So the raid blanner should be flexible and some members should stop giving
a shit about the planner. And usually there are like 10 unavailable
messages where ppl say that they "maybe" can come or if I happen
to be online etc. etc.....which sucks
But i can't really say is this the best raid sign up system...but for sure
we cant blame it more than we can blame ppl who don't sign up. Why do they
even join if they are not interested in raiding. |
| Kugai |
Ignoring the disgusting flame fest
this has become...
I think it would a lot if we got the next weeks raids up as soon as
possible. Putting a raid sign up for monday up on Sunday night doesn't
really help people who goto bed early and can't get access to the internet
during the day.
Of course this certainly isn't the cause of all of our attendance
problems.
Some guilds have a policy of having people sign up (or off) to a raid if
they can come or not, and this could perhaps at least get people to use
the raid planner but doesn't mean any more people would actually sign up
for the raid. |
| Sumomo |
| kugai wrote: |
| Putting a raid sign up for monday up on Sunday
night doesn't really help people who goto bed early and can't get
access to the internet during the day. |
this already has been adressed from rall to me, and since last week
doesn't happen anymore. mondays raids are available allready during
saturday or even friday, etc.
about "flexibility": as i said before (which is easily to miss
in middle of all the flaming) we had to take away flexibility more and
more due our past attendance problems. and we're not willing to waste 2
hours in BRM (or wherever) trying to fill a raid, not knowing if we'll
able to fill the raid or not. and BWL is not a place like MC where you can
go with 30 if you want. or you go with the correct group, or you don't go.
thus, raids get canceled when the signing deadline is reached and not
enough people bothered to sign up.
and yes, i agree that one of the problems (if not "THE" problem)
is people who sign like "maybe" and other attitudes the like. i
don't know why such people joined this guild and i don't think they'll
stay in this guild for too long, once rall starts the "clean-up" |
| Kugai |
Not really RP related, but
attendance/recruitment, but I thought I'd post here as everyone is reading.
Perhaps it's worth suggesting absorbing a smaller struggling guild. For
example Renascor. Mostly ex-Valheru so mostly MC equipment.
(Oversimplified here, of course.)
According to their dkp site they've raided MC and ZG once since they
formed, and that was over 2 years ago. |
| Rall |
We will be looking into condensing
our schedule on the short term, cleaning out some truly inactive recruits
and possible ways we can be more flexible until September when summer is
over |
| Dhalasaz |
I dont know would this work for us
but when i was in a guild called "Sneak Magic" which was raiding
with The Silver Horde (for over a year ago) used much different system and
actually it worked very well.
(Dont know is TSH still useing that)
People didnt do any signups. When the raid time was, member were told to
whisper a key word to the raidleader such "invite druid". If
druid slots were filled already you didn't get into the raid.
This may sound kinda weird maybe, but it worked. |
| Sumomo |
| Dhalasaz wrote: |
I dont know would this work for us but when i was
in a guild called "Sneak Magic" which was raiding with
The Silver Horde (for over a year ago) used much different system
and actually it worked very well.
(Dont know is TSH still useing that)
People didnt do any signups. When the raid time was, member were
told to whisper a key word to the raidleader such "invite
druid". If druid slots were filled already you didn't get
into the raid.
This may sound kinda weird maybe, but it worked. |
how can that help us, when there are no "druids" online? |
| Mettechen |
Back from holiday, time to show my
commitment, and express my oppinion..
I like the raidplanner. Easy way to sign up or off, and very similar to
the sign up system we had back in october, when I first joined. The
planner also eases the work load of the praetorians, and with that work
load gone, there is more time to focus on the class and the community, and
as the community tribune, I ofcourse approve very much of this!!
I also think we should be more flexible according to taking in the people
who didn't sign at all.
My suggestion:
Do invites like this: Firstly, invite those who bothered to sign up.
Secondly, invite those who signed off. And last, as a "last resort",
invite those who didn't use the planner at all. That way we will have more
raids filled, less raids cancelled.
When the summer is over, we might need to look through this again, and
find other ways.. But for now, that is the best thing I can come up with..
Someone else wrote that too in this post I believe, so I won't take all
the credit. 
Conclusion: Keep the planner, but also bring in the people who didn't sign
up.. As a last resort ofcourse.
Nothing in this post worth commenting about, but I just wanted to express
my oppinion now when I'm back.
- Mette. |
| Sumomo |
i understand what you people say
with that "RP invite queue change" but then we're "rewarding"
and "promoting" again not giving a fuck about using it, as
they'll get their spot anyways.
is it SO HARD to show some little responsability and SIGN IN every1? |
| Mettechen |
No, it isn't.. But then you need to
make perfectly clear that they should ALWAYS sign in or off, or else they
will be fined or something.. |
| Sumomo |
OFFSIGNING has become one of our
problems...
"i maybe come"
or
"n/a" and then being online but not responding to whispers...
are one of the major illness.
by doing that they show that they actually dont give a flying shit BUT can
get a spot if needed. |
| Kugai |
When we have enough people to fill
our raids (latest sept) the people who sign off always, or don't sign at
all will never get space in raids and will realise that they must sign up
to get in the raid.
We must adapt to stituations as we meet them. Meet every challenge with a
fitting solution. |
| Rall |
Even though I am loathe to say this
because it goes against every grain in my fibres but maybe we need to take
this suggestion on board.
I think under the circumstances it is more about being able to raid than
punishing those that don't use the planner.
If it is made perfectly clear that they will be chosen ONLY as a last
resort then eventually maybe this situation will remedy itself.
The sad thing is I can only think of one reason why on some days we've had
50% of our guild using the planner and that's because they have figured
out they they won't get a fine for no showing for an event they haven't
committed to.
SO therefore on certain days we've had 50 ppl or more basically saying the
rest of us don't matter at all as long as they don't get fines and can
show up if they feel like it.
Not even the courtesy to let us know 2 hours in advance.
If it was a few I could understand but 50% to me means they don't care.
On the short term I think until the summer is over we need to make
whatever concessions are necessary to get by but after that we need to get
way more serious and maybe even consider carrying fewer people who are
willing to raid more often.
We need to stop getting so frustrated with each other and realise the
central focus of our energies should be guided towards surrounding
ourselves with people who care as much about our progress as we do. |
| Kugai |
I think perhaps some people are
going with the flow. They see some people not using the RP and so don't
use it themselves.
We could just fine people like 1dkp or something for not using the raid
planner unless they're on holiday or something.
Wouldn't help with so many signing off though. |
| Micca |
Is it possible to do so you can
change your note if you are already signed off? So you don't you have to
sign on then off again. |
| Sumomo |
| Micca wrote: |
| Is it possible to do so you can change your note
if you are already signed off? So you don't you have to sign on
then off again. |
is it so hard to press a button twice? |
| Rall |
No it's not hard to push the button
twice
The less excuses we give them however the less they can use. |
| Micca |
| Sumomo wrote: |
| Micca wrote: |
| Is it possible to do so you can change
your note if you are already signed off? So you don't you
have to sign on then off again. |
is it so hard to press a button twice? |
Just to make it easier, that's all. |
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